Last week we came across this interesting post written by David Booth on his blog The Recording Booth.
The post brings in to discussion the sticky topic of playing for nothing and whether or not it is good for musicians. Thanks to David for allowing usto re-publish it in full on our website, so here it is…
—start—
Just this week I had an unexpected, but very interesting facebook chat with a great musician and all-round good chap called Terry Crouch. I know him from my days in and around the Chelmsford / mid-Essex acoustic scene where he puts on some good ‘showcase’ nights for up & coming singer/songwriters. I also had the pleasure of recording him and singer Lucy Lawson a wee while back (go check ‘em out at http://www.lucylawson.com/acoustic_h.html). Anyway, this conversation brought up the thorny issue of playing for nothing. We didn’t have any big new ideas or conclusions, but I do think this sort of thing needs debating more. So, here’s how it went…
TC
Want a spot at one of my Black Bull Acoustic nights? Sadly unpaid, but a good platform..
DB
Hi Terry. Thanks for the offer old bean. I’m guessing the ‘sadly unpaid’ is not under your control, but it’s something I really don’t agree with unless it’s an open mic. Are the bar staff working for free? Nope. Then why should the entertainers who bring people in to the pub? You do loads of great work for up and coming musicians mate and are a fine guitarist, so I’m not having a go at you. Just the situation you find yourself in. We don’t expect fortunes, but every performer should get something… in my humble…
TC
Understood, but such is the nature of these ‘showcase’ nights.. this one happens to be rated as one of the best around. I go to the lengths of providing ‘live performance’ videos which get banded around quite successfully afterward, along with quality photographic portraits that many use for their advertising and even their album/CD artworks.. so, although you’re not getting paid in ‘folding stuff’ as such, at least these nights are very good platforms for people getting their music out there, plus you get a vid and a photo for good measure. Plus (and don’t take this personally please!!), if nobody’s heard of you, how do you expect to get a name for yourself without playing anywhere? This is not aimed at you personally, as I know you and know some of your stuff, but many do not – that’s what I’m here for.. I ran the acoustic stage at The Fling last year, and will be running the same stage at the Olympic Relay Event at Hylands Park in 3 weeks time, where there’s 15000 potential new fans.. and none of the acts are doing it for money. I know, as a musician, that it isn’t entirely the way we want things, but such is the nature of the way things go. I know you’re good Dave, and would want others to see that!
DB
Thanks for your thoughtful reply Terry. So many things I want to pick up on I hardly know where to start. I know I’m no Ed Sheeran, but does that still mean working musicians like you and I should play for nothing? Not even some travel expenses? Not sure. As for the excellent services you provide for people playing your gig, that is indeed worth something… but I do hope you are getting paid! I’m just not sure it’s healthy to put a zero value on what we do mate. And yeah, it does come down to folding stuff in the end. Pays for new strings and kids shoes! I guess we can all *choose* to play for nowt and considering the photo/video extras you provide, arguably we wouldn’t be playing for free. Hmmm. More thought required but I’m now thinking this discussion should differentiate between amateur activity and professional activity. Later perhaps.
TC
Totally with you Dave.. and wish I had the power/position to change it!
Enter James Partridge for the final word for now…
Over at LATI (Live At The Institute, Kelvedon) we charge enough on the door so that we can pay everyone. It works, people still come and everyone gets paid. But we set our stall out like that from the word go, and it was ever thus.
—end—
Thanks again to David Booth for letting us re-publish this conversation on our website. We would really like to know what you think about this idea: do you think playing for free is OK? What are the benefits and what are the risks / limitations?
About David Booth
Musician first, songwriter, engineer and producer later. I started playing cornet at the age of 4 and didn’t realise until much later just how much I learned during my ‘brass band’ years: melody; harmony; counterpoint; and that listening is as important as playing. I’ve long-since given up the brass, but now have drums, guitars and vocals in my musical tool box, all of which I’ve done at a professional level both live and in the studio.
http://www.therecordingbooth.co.uk/
TweetSimilar posts:
You can choose to approached this issue as self-employed/skilled labour where you get paid per hour like a job in which case there will always be someone who will undercut you in a saturated market or you can choose be an artist/entrepreneur and build a business in which case you get paid for the value you bring to the hour through creating joint ventures and partnerships with other businesses.
This shows signs of taking over from “Pay to Play”. I’m hearing of more and more cases of bands being asked to play for “the exposure” or being told that there’s just no budget. As a general rule it’s something I avoid like the plague but I’ll make the occasional exception, if it’s likely to be of some benefit, even if only some “goodwill”.
As a bandleader, though, I do feel very guilty asking other musicians to play alongside me without any fee at such gigs. Getting a video and/or photos shot might well make it a more worthwhile experience but the old line about good exposure/publicity doesn’t really hold much water when your band has been gigging for over 25 years!
Perhaps if it’s a much bigger event than the kind of gig you usually play it might actually get you some worthwhile exposure but in this electronic age it’s much more likely that social media will raise your profile than any but the biggest live gigs.
On the other hand I, like many others I’m sure, travel over 10 miles and pay a couple of quid every week to rehearse with a big band that gigs only extrememly rarely. I’ve always thought that a more canny bandleader could negotiate with a suitable pub or club for free rehearsal space once a week in return for playing a free gig, say, once a month. Surely everybody wins?
Why would someone promote gigs, book the bands, supply the PA in various pubs for free when the pubs regularly PAY bands and have to to do all the work themselves?
Because I have a passion for music, and want others to hear and see what’s out there. The nights I put on are stepping stones for artists/groups to get their music heard. Just because people class themselves as ‘professionals’ doesn’t mean that people have heard of them – and also doesn’t give them the immediate right to charge for what they do..
People approach me to put them on at one of my nights, so they can effectively advertise themselves. I do ask people if they want to play at a night that has a good following of music lovers, and most say ‘yes, thanks’ and come along, have a great night, possibly sell a few CD’s, make some new fans/friends/contacts.. and life is sweet. If everyone went into music with the mercenary opinion that they should be paid, then we wouldn’t see hardly any of the musicians and acts that we do.
What my nights do, as well as other ‘showcase’ nights, is open people’s eyes and ears to new stuff, just emerging on the scene. Nobody’s going to book and pay for a band they’ve not seen or heard, surely? So these events provide a platform for them just to get noticed. As much as I can, I sort out some petrol money, video their sets and promote them if someone asks me who’s good… the latter I personally do for free, as we all need a helping hand here and there in this business.
Cheers, TC
Well done Terry like the last comments here,its also helpful in other ways as you will see.can you contact me.Skip has my phone number at snooker club.
Kind Regards
Dave.
For new artists playing for free can be a way to get a foot in the door…and if there’s some useful stuff like decent videos, photos and a buzz that’s very important. The artist, I guess should use the show as a way to generate some additional buzz and get media preview/reviews.
That’s in an ideal world though….and like some other occupations (journalism or photography for example), some folks will do a little work for free to get the exposure/byline/photo credit and help create an initial portfolio or reputation.
However… The ‘Our night is one of the most respected’ persuasions and ‘it’ll be good exposure are tired, over-used and often untrue statements used to persuade enthusiastic artist to perform for free.
The important thing is for folks to know where to draw the line…where do folks stop playing “for the exposure”?! Not soon enough, I fear…especially when the incentive is to play another gig. For free. 15000 (or however many folks) or not….if they’re not there for the music- and specifically to see YOU – I fear they won’t be intersted and the chance of picking up any fans is pretty slim.
The problem becomes bigger when folks who are beyond “starting out” keep playing free shows (and I don’t give a toss for ‘the reason’)…so, playing for free can be helpful and the opportunities valuable…but know when to stop! Looks like Terry provides a good platform for artists to get started…and lots of good comments (Kit)… The onus is on the artist to make best use of the opportunities and make informed decisions on when to use the and when to move on.
It’s also worth remembering that if you attract an audience that wouldn’t normally be in a venue, pub or whatever SOMEONE is making money out of it and it isn’t the performer….
We list free gigs because we want to maximise the promotional advantages that they can offer. We feel that removing the price barrier opens up exploration, chance encounters and reluctant potential audiences. However we often find that many artists are not in a sufficiently strong or learned position to take full advantage of these opportunities.
We spend a lot of time searching for links, video and audio files – the bare bones of band promotion – to compile band profiles. It’s the weak link in the industry – the lack of artistic confidence and inability to self-promote. It’s a rough learning curve.
For established artists free gigs should be looked upon as a straight promotional/commercial/reputational transaction. If you don’t feel it’s worth it then either negotiate yourselves to a position where it is or don’t do it. There are plenty of venues pitching a free model and there are just as many offering, low-cost paid gigs through established promoter networks.
I used to promote gigs at a declining pub in Brighton on a tuesday night. I was a rubbish promoter and the bands were in the main not that great amateur bands. The gigs were free entry and I used to get a percentage of the bar take. Despite all that, I could still afford to give bands a bit of petrol money for the hassle of coming down. They wouldn’t even ask for money up front as playing for free is the norm and were generally pleasantly surprised to get some cash.
There’s no excuse not to pay at least travel expenses really.